The similar phrase 'Worldly Christianity' is one used by Bonhoeffer. It's J Gresham Machen that I want to line up most closely with. See his Christianity and culture here. Having done commentaries on Proverbs (Heavenly Wisdom) and Song of Songs (Heavenly Love), a matching title for Ecclesiastes would be Heavenly Worldliness. For my stance on worldliness, see 3 posts here.

More on the Met Tab

I missed Wednesday but went again for some of Thursday. Again it was all fairly negative and even when one agreed with the drift of many arguments one felt uneasy about certain things. Speakers are not oblivious to the danger of being written off and were alert to the need to be nuanced but didn't quite get there for me. Few Christians would argue with John Thackway's points about the need for gracious moderation, modest deportment (plus wise abstention and healthy preventives which he had no time to elaborate). Sanctified tastes is much more of a minefield. Mendelssohn is okay apparently but not rock 'n' roll. (Here's one place to test this theory).
Anyway the whole thing left me feeling quite depressed. Chris Hand rightly pointed out the tragedy it is that John Piper has decided to give Rick Warren a platform and similar causes for concern. I also feel great sympathy for many of the points made. However, I can't entirely line up with the whole met tab package - AV, pews, no pre-19th century-style hymns, etc. I'm sure the positon I take is not unique but it does feel rather lonely sometimes.

14 comments:

Jonathan Hunt said...

The most negative thing I have seen and heard in the last few days is... right here, I think.

You have heard some comments that were generalised and a touch unfair. I think you are responding in kind.

By the way, the pews comment (at SoT) did not go unnoticed and I will address it starting monday.

Anonymous said...

Gary,

Fow what it's worth I share a number of your concerns about the met tab package. Though we should be discerning we must be careful not to develop a censorious (much less caustic) spirit. This is where fear some of the brethren are erring.

Barry King

Anonymous said...

Attended a service there in January along with now London-resident offspring.

Came away with a similar feeling.

Jonathan Hunt said...

Yes, because 'a service' is all it takes to fully appreciate a church and all it does and teaches, after all.

Anonymous said...

The SoT pamphlet described exactly what who was preaching and the subjects to be examined, so why did you go?

If you think you hold a lonely position, what about those who do sign up to the met tab package?

Gary Brady said...

To be fair, the connection between the SoT pamphlet and the actual conference can sometimes be a little tenuous. I came along to see what I culd learn. Is there much point in attending conferences or reading books that simply confirm all your prejudices?
As for Metabolists being lonely, Dr Master's assured us that for 1950 years Christians have taken his view on worldliness and that only in the last 50 has there been any change. Hardly lonely then. My loneliness springs from having stong sympathies with the met tab but not taking on the whole fundamanetalist package

Anonymous said...

Fair enough, but you KNOW where the Metabites stand so it shouldn't come as a surprise.

As for being lonely, Christians may've taken Dr Master's view on worldliness for the past 1950 years but they don't seem to anymore. I'd have to go 70 miles to attend a "Metabite type" church.

Anonymous said...

I found all the sessions excellent and edifying to my soul. Was uneasy on aspersions on John MacArthur, RC Sproul & Mark Dever. They are our brothers in Christ who love the Lord dearly and seek to glorify Him. John 17 comes to my mind although I totally will not join with ecumenical churches. Good to TAKE HEED to what the Spirit is saying as we have deceitful hearts. What I long for is Christians with no prejudice but who are full of the Holy Spirit and love for each other! Heaven is a world of love. I went to 2 churches recently & honestly could not enter into worship as the drums were too loud! We ought to be thankful for our brethren who dare to put their lives on the line to speak out against errors and waywardness like the prophets of old. Appreciate your honestly,Gary.

Gary Benfold said...

Gary - I think we're all lonely, for a lot of reasons. It's part of the human condition; it's the particular lot of pastors; we're prone to feel sorry for ourselves, and so on. But surely one reason is that we split off unnecessarily? We think we're being charitable, but in fact those of us that are one in everything major in practice have very little to do with each other. We don't go to the same conferences; we don't preach for one another; an atmosphere of suspicion prevails in which we're always looking over our shoulders at what Stuart Olyott once called 'the Regulative Panel.' And those of us who genuinely try to fellowship across some of the smaller divides, find both sides shoot us.

Gary Brady said...

Thanks for further contributions. All very stimulating.

Ben said...

I've just come across this post, and having thought about it through the day am left depressed by its negative tone.

What is it that you have against pews, exactly?

Gary Brady said...

Ben - not my posterior thankfully! They are a bit less comfortable than chairs. I am not against them, I just don't think they are a real issue and shouldn't be made into one. More controversially, I feel the same way to some extent about the AV and many post-19th century hymns. I think the negativity began with the met tab rather than me.

Anonymous said...

Just came across this and feel deeply saddened that people launch such attacks against the Tab. If only most of you spent a whole Sunday here or even a few months you would see a beautiful family of Christians all earnestly seeking to love the Lord and each other more and more. The Bible calls us to be separate from the world and this is what Tab aims to do and it's what we as believers in Christ should all be aiming to do. I honestly believe that the reason most people feel negative towards the Tab is because they don't like being reminded of how sinful they are or how far they fall short. It's simply a matter or pride and failure to see the seriousness and the depth of their own sin. My prayer is that the Lord will show you your sin even more and this will cause you to fall before Him even more repentant and thankful for what Christ did for us on that cross.

Gary Brady said...

Well I too feel deeply saddened that you would launch such an attack against anyone who dares to question the Tab line. If only you spent a whole Sunday in my church or even a few months you would see a beautiful but flawed family of Christians all earnestly seeking to love the Lord and each other more and more. The Bible calls us to be separate from the world and this is what we aim to do and it's what we as believers in Christ should all be aiming to do. (I hope the title of the blog hasn't confused on that). I honestly believe that the reason you feel negative towards my criticisms of the Tab is because you don't like being reminded of how sinful we all are or how far we fall short. I will not accuse you of pride as you have accused me though perhaps you have failed to see the seriousness and the depth of your own sin. My prayer is that the Lord will show you your sin even more and this will cause you to fall before Him even more repentant and thankful for what Christ did for us on that cross.